Curse

ousbique · May 05, 2010, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fillyra

/notsigned if you really want Anet's attention open up NCsoft support tickets.

send a ticket 1 week ago, never had an answer

Obviously you don't want to see theses bots, but you can't deny their presence in bot PvE and PvP.
The last monthly was the worst exemple of botting-without-any-fear.

Fillyra · May 05, 2010, 11:23 PM // 23:23

I'll believe what people are saying. If this was a petition for anet to do something about the bots ASAP I'd sign it.

But sadly if an anet rep was to post: "We're working on it" and I didn't see any progress in the next few days I'd ramble on how they shouldn't tease their playerbase like this.

Which happens all too often.

Also sad sad that these PvPers do this in this game. I myself never liked the actual PvP like RA and CA because they're so boring and repetitive and mundane.

I did like TA though but they got rid of that.

novii · May 05, 2010, 11:24 PM // 23:24

/signed... Oh and.. Hi gwguru.

LunchboxOctober · May 05, 2010, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Before I get started, I'm a PvE player regularily. I like this game more for mindless hack n slash of mobs in pve than calculated destruction in arenas. I don't bother farming or speed clearing areas. I like the challenge of actually killing stuff. If PvE bots overfarm and ruin the ingame economy, it won't affect me. I've always held a view that everything in this game is just monopoly money and we're all waiting for anet to land on Boardwalk with a hotel.

While I do PvP (RA, AB usually) I don't play regularily enough or am I dedicated enough to it to be able to spot a bot from another player there, but that's just pathetic. If people don't have the ability or skill to overcome their opponents through creative play styles, obviously an inanimate object should do it for you. The only personal experience I equivocate this to is map hacking in Starcraft - yes I know two very different things and Blizzard, for a time, attempted to stop it. But it still happened, evolved, and probably will continue to happen later in Starcraft 2 (once they reverse engineer a way to accomplish this feat). It immediately impacts the enjoyment of the game for parties who don't adhere to a meta of cheating. I wish they would have a no-tolerance policy against such violations of rules of conduct and / or EULA, but they don't and probably never will.

People in this thread have said many different factors for why people use these instead of actually playing the game, and most are true I won't deny it. But how many people have looked at the evolution of gamers? I'm almost 24, I've spent a fair amount of time enjoying video games. I don't have adjectives like 'elite' or 'noob' in my lexicon. I remember an era where the only thing that mattered was getting a higher score on Atari than the person next to you on the couch. Obviously a grind. Then games started to having stories, plots, characters, and sometimes an ending. Then with Ninja Gaiden we were introduced to cut scenes. This was a time when gamers weren't goaded into games by fancy, shiny graphics or polygon counts, frame rates etc. Sure the box art fooled us and terrible games were produced en masse, but even those bad games could be good.

As the game companies evolved, so did the games, but the gamers have always held the same attitude. Regardless of the game, they want to find the easiest way to do something. For example, let's use Gradius on NES. It's a hard game, not impossible, but hard. While porting it to the NES the programmer found it too difficult to beat in order to test all the levels to insure that they functioned properly. To alleviate this, he put in a well known button combination I hope every one has heard of. Ever since then, gamers want a back door or short cut. Beating a game normally is always enjoyable, but the third or fourth time through you might want to skip the beginning and get to the fun parts. But this only affects your enjoyment of the game, or maybe a few other people in the room.

Once the internet became widely available and games took advantage of it for multiplayer cheating went from being fun to being a problem, but in my opinion majority of gamers haven't been able to evolve their gameplay past this. In Diablo 1 try and find a GPoW that wasn't duped. Sure, D2 addressed it some what but it wasn't enough. Any advantage players could find, they took. I remember playing Halo 2 on Xbox Live and loosing 1 Flag CTF because of blue screening (causing the game to hiccup for 20-60 seconds by resetting the router and have most players attempting to reconnect, while the host was able to roam freely.) I'm sure many other people here can recount stories of games they've played online where hacking, modding, or other third party programs have affected a game they enjoyed to play.

By nature, gamers will always take the easier path. Why should I fight all the way to the end in Super Mario Bros. 3 when I can just pop in a Game Genie use Skywalker and get across the level above the top of the screen? Both ways will take me Bowser in his castle. The same applies directly for GW, why should I farm x myself when bot y can do it? I personally have a sense of achievement in game after actually playing through something rather than watching some one run it for me. Don't misconstrue that statement - it's only a game, I know all I really did was take time off my life, but if I am going to sit on my ass all night I might as well do it myself not watch some one else play the game I paid for.

To the people that make bots - kudos. You're intelligence and ingenuity are impressive if you can take an AI and get it to successfully farm or complete something in the game.
To the people who put them on the internet and the people who perpetuate their use through laissez-faire attitudes, you're the problem.
Stop being part of the problem.
To the people that use them, if you can't achieve something ingame yourself, then you probably shouldn't have it. If you can't beat teams in HA, Codex, or RA on your own you should probably practice more. If you can't interupt, then maybe thats not your role in a team. If you're too lazy to farm those stacks of whatever, maybe you shouldn't have them. This game was meant to be, and should be, about skill, not wealth or achievement.

To sum it up - Anet can't do anything. They'll build a better mousetrap, and the the botters will build a better mouse. The only way this will stop is if gamers stop looking for cheats and people stop marketing them. Take 600/Smite. Whomever came up with it was a genius. The person that put it on wiki, thats another story.

/unsigned

Also I have to say the 'fight fire with fire' arguement is just terrible. If everyone bots then who is actually playing this game?

Anyways, that was my rant. Feel free to destroy it with your knowledge of language and a lexicon of harsh, biting satire. Trolls can go back to harrassing billy goats. Now if you'll excuse me, I don't want to grow up, want to be a Toys R Us kid...

Tramp · May 06, 2010, 12:17 AM // 00:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

This argument is garbage. I bet you'd be pretty unhappy if ANet released 10,000 Kanaxais tomorrow, Tramp. The value of a Kanaxai is tied up in its exclusivity. Not everyone can dedicate one. Take that away, and the years of labor you invested to acquire the goodies to buy a Kanaxai with go right out the window.

Yes, I would be mad, but I posted specifically about title requirements, not supposedly limited items. If title requirements were cut by 90%, it really would not impact my gwamm. I might be mad that I did not wait until the new lower requirements, but such is life and you get over it. (I am still mad they killed my 600 monk. I have not gotten over that yet.) Oh, and I am selling the kanaxai in large part because it just depresses me to own it. I have a lot of good memories from the game and this kana used to be my best friend's. He got scammed out of it by a bunch of euro-fags who then sold it to me. I did not find out it was actually my best friend's one until 2 months later when he emailed me at my private email explaining why he could not bear to log in anymore. So gained a kana, lost a great friend. That's not how I want to remember GW1. So selling this cursed thing and buying my first pet back, island guardian, that I ever started this game with 3.5 years ago. At least then I might have some closure and a little bit of good feelings left as GW2 is dangled in front of me. Maybe good feelings... that 600 nerf is still pissing me off.

Oh, the housing market analogy on the previous page does not work. The housing market in 2008 did not crash because of oversupply and constant demand. It crashed because the Democrats in charge of the banking committee (Christopher "I get V.I.P. Loans" Dodd, Barney "The Male Brothel" Frank, Chuck "Chuck You" Shumer, and Maxine "I'm A Socialist" Waters) forced the banks to make ever higher percentages of mortgages to applicants REGARDLESS of their income or ability to repay the loan, in order to increase low income home ownership. This policy started under Bill Clinton's watch and the democrats in charge continued it under Bush, since the democrats controlled Congress. I remember buying a house in the Clinton years and Wells Fargo bank asked me what race I was. WTF? I told them it was none of their business and it has no basis for the loan. The loan officer then told me it was part of the new form the bank had to fill out due to Clinton regulations and that if I refused to answer she was instructed to look at me and make her best guess as to what race I was. Each year the congressional finance committee forced banks to slowly increase the percentage of these "subprime" loans being made to "diversify" home ownership. It got to the point where the loans were made just on the basis of your "claimed" income. The bank did not actually have to verify your income at all. Whatever you stated on the application was good enough. You could make up any damn numbers you wanted. Those were called "no-doc" loans. All was fine and dandy as they packaged these things up and sold them in bulk back to the government Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Is it any surprise that the boards of these institutions were packed with political patronage jobs? They were mostly former Clinton workers who were paid off with directorships. Hell, they even cooked the books in order to hit the targets they needed to pay themselves millions in bonuses. Those political patronage jobs sure pay off big time! The law of averages masked the true disaster these bundles of mortgages were going to have. Then one day the economy takes a dip, the subprime borrowers get hit the hardest, and all that paper turned out to be worthless. The bank assets get killed, lending stops, and the housing market takes an even bigger dump. So the 2008 bubble was not oversupply and constant demand, it was caused by political manipulation in a private sector market.

Maybe... just maybe... if I was smart enough I could come up with an analogy something like Anet being the "government politicians" screwing around in the marketplace everytime they monkeyf--- around with the nerfing and buffing of skills. Like the politicians pretending to be market wizards when they are clearly complete idiots, I do not think the people at Anet realize what motivates and what creates a disincentive for people playing GW. I am not sure where to go with that analogy, but it is there somewhere. I think I will go eat dinner instead. Cya.

snikerz · May 06, 2010, 12:37 AM // 00:37

ah well since my thread has died, and this one is active, i'll /sign

*lemming* · May 06, 2010, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fillyra

I haven't seen any bots either and they haven't been affecting my gameplay of the game. *shrug*

even went to HA and looked around for 3 hours didn't see any bots.

Either way I have faith in Anet that they're doing a great job and they'll get these bots even without needing to respond to this thread. :x

Martin Alvito · May 06, 2010, 01:15 AM // 01:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tramp

Yes, I would be mad, but I posted specifically about title requirements, not supposedly limited items.

They both serve the same function: signaling accomplishment. The only difference is a matter of degree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tramp

Oh, the housing market analogy on the previous page does not work. The housing market in 2008 did not crash because of oversupply and constant demand.

...

Here's how this works: the government failed to appropriately regulate lending. The loan officers (I once was one) got paid on the basis of the business they booked. The banks were in a classic "heads I win, tails everyone else loses" situation. They were guaranteed a bailout if things went south. So the banks funded far too many risky loans. If it works (and it worked phenomenally in the short run), the banks profit. If not, the taxpayers bail them out. Hard to pass on risks when the upside is huge and the downside is minimal.

Now, since everyone and his brother could get a loan, builders kept building to service demand. Once the system failed, lenders had to be more conservative. The result was a glut of supply on the market.

Demand didn't change. People were still willing to pay the same amounts for a house. But capacity to buy did. The result is a crash in asset values.

Reverend Dr · May 06, 2010, 03:43 AM // 03:43

I don't have time to read this thread and I don't have time to see the direction the discussion is proceeding. However as this is directed at Anet I would like to say the following: I am a terrible person who has long derived enjoyment from other people's suffering. I have long hung around likeminded individuals and the list of our bans from this game is extensive. So strong were our bans that one of our members names was put on the restricted list long before words such as "(filtered by guru, not the F-bomb, it rhymes with punt)", "dyke", or "vagina". Our longtime guild was in the running for guild of the week (back when people cared), but was removed when they realized who was in that guild. And while none of us (as far as I know) have botted, that is irrelevant; all of our shenanigans are insignificant next to the effect that botting has had upon the credibility of this game.

In short, I dislike botting and am appalled that it is being allowed to run as rampant it has been today.

Tramp · May 06, 2010, 03:45 AM // 03:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

Here's how this works: the government failed to appropriately regulate lending. The loan officers (I once was one) got paid on the basis of the business they booked. The banks were in a classic "heads I win, tails everyone else loses" situation. They were guaranteed a bailout if things went south. So the banks funded far too many risky loans. If it works (and it worked phenomenally in the short run), the banks profit. If not, the taxpayers bail them out. Hard to pass on risks when the upside is huge and the downside is minimal.

You are absolutely correct on the moral hazard of the government standing behind the banks to bail out risky lending. However, you are wrong when you attribute it to government failing to regulate it. Government over regulation, and specifically the democrats, were the cause. The Community Reinvestment Act of 1977 under Carter was put in place to increase minority lending. Fine. However Clinton took that program and used the HUD agency (Housing and Urban Development) to expand the number of risky loans exponentially. The banks were forced to make ever higher percentages of their loans to people who could not pay them back or face penalties from the government. The same idiots on the Congressional Finance committee who raised the percentages are now trying to blame everyone else. You are right, the banks did not care because it meant more profit for them as long as the government (Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac) was buying up the subprime pools and basically ready to bail them out if things went bad. Well now Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are asking for another 400 billion today to bail them out of all these HUD loans. Just look at today's Investors Business Daily Editorial. Government regulation was the problem both in creating the mess AND, as you say, in creating the moral hazard of the banks. In my opinion, there should be some congressmen in jail right now as well as Raines and a bunch of the other democrat cronies under Clinton who raped Fannie Mae and cooked the books to get their bonuses. They knew this paper they were buying up and reselling to investors was junk, but they just took the money and ran. Investors Business Daily article just from today on this very thing:

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnal...aspx?id=532484

talon994 · May 06, 2010, 04:05 AM // 04:05

So this whole thread in a nut shell...

Bots won't be stopped
Lux JQ is bad
Koreans have been botting HA for 5 months + now
Anet doesn't care about bots
Reporting gets you no where
Kurzicks still boast about every win in JQ
People don't like contests and who judges them
People like going off topic for politics
Halls will soon be held by a team of 8 bots
Raptors and TopK can be farmed via bot
People seem mad at Anet and at each other
Grind is no good

I have probably missed more points,but for now this is good enough to say that GW is going down the shitter.

Septeric · May 06, 2010, 04:25 AM // 04:25

@talon994

that seems like a fair assessment to me based on all i have read.

Kawil · May 06, 2010, 06:04 AM // 06:04

@ Martin & Tramp:

You two done with that little contest you're having? Besides, what's the need for analogies anyway? Botting is wrong, bad, against EULA, cheating, etc.... There. Easy, simple and without the need for one-upsmanship.

@ANet:

Yeah, I don't like botting and would like it to be looked at please. Thank you.

Elnino · May 06, 2010, 06:40 AM // 06:40

All of the problems in gw would be easier to handle if they just had a larger Live Team

II Lucky Charm II · May 06, 2010, 08:03 AM // 08:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerel

I can think of an infinitely more effective way of countering interrupt bots... banning them, unfortunately Anet/NCsoft doesn't seem to care.

Reporting is a joke. Unless you're running an incredibly obvious farm bot churning out gold for some RMT scumbag Anet just doesn't seem to care in the slightest.

I doubt GW2 is going to fair any better. Way to fail Anet.

Nerel, as of this moment, there is nothing else you can do to counter the interrupt bots besides cancel cast. The way you provided isn't realistic since we all know that Anet won't do anything. Sure, if Anet will ban the bots, the way you listed will be one thousand times more effective than mine. However, we all know that hackers always find ways to get around the system.

For the farm bots, if the players don't want to fight fire with fire, they will have to swallow the bitter pill and play in an unfair environment. It's simple, people. Anet will not do anything about these bots so either you join the botters or keep playing and stop crying.

That being said, my friends from the alliance have farmed for the past 2 weeks (about 300 hours online) straight without logging off and none of them were banned. They all have at least 1,000 ectoes each. I don't think they will get banned anytime soon since the programming knowledge they have far surpasses Anet programmers' knowledge. I doubt that the Anet programmers even hold a PhD or Masters in computer programming. This is sad. People who can work are paying for those who are unable to do their jobs right. Why bother working when you can't do anything right?

Mini Vizu · May 06, 2010, 08:57 AM // 08:57

Guys,
I heard they are making a W/Mo RA bot...
This could destroy RA forever.

QueenofDeath · May 06, 2010, 11:00 AM // 11:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mini Vizu

Guys,
I heard they are making a W/Mo RA bot...
This could destroy RA forever.

Yes and she comes with Mending, Frenzy and Healing sig that she uses together all the time and she is blond.

)

lishi · May 06, 2010, 11:18 AM // 11:18

Wow wammo joke, welcome to 4 year ago

axe · May 06, 2010, 01:03 PM // 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

I don't have time to read this thread and I don't have time to see the direction the discussion is proceeding. However as this is directed at Anet I would like to say the following: I am a terrible person who has long derived enjoyment from other people's suffering. I have long hung around likeminded individuals and the list of our bans from this game is extensive. So strong were our bans that one of our members names was put on the restricted list long before words such as "(filtered by guru, not the F-bomb, it rhymes with punt)", "dyke", or "vagina". Our longtime guild was in the running for guild of the week (back when people cared), but was removed when they realized who was in that guild. And while none of us (as far as I know) have botted, that is irrelevant; all of our shenanigans are insignificant next to the effect that botting has had upon the credibility of this game.

In short, I dislike botting and am appalled that it is being allowed to run as rampant it has been today.

This is full of win

Another Felldspar · May 06, 2010, 01:38 PM // 13:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

I'm sorry, you must have misread what I wrote. Botters could potentially ruin the economy, NOT by driving down ecto/item cost by overfarming BUT by overfarming and maintaining price.

Now, I could see how that might be hard for you to understand, but if supply goes up, yet demand is controlled, then you have a bigger problem than if the price crashes (e.g. US housing market in 2000/2008).

And there's still always the chance that prices will crash anyway, which is obviously also a bad outcome.

And I assume that anti-drug commercials promote drugs? Um....no. Giving people information isn't marketing. Spinning that information in a positive way is.

Botting is bad for the game. Don't hear me saying anything other than that.

Have you ever noticed how Anti drug spots make it clear that bad things happen because of drugs? That's what makes them ANTI. Yet, when someone in the thread said, "I don't want to bot, A-Net might ban me." You were quick to jump in and tell them that nothing bad would happen from botting. According to you if they run a bot their account is perfectly safe. That's not anti-anything. That's -- to quote you -- spinning that information in a positive way. The information you've given is that bots are free, readily available and completely safe with more and better options on the horizon. Not exactly a negative spin.

There are some similarities between simple economic models and pixelated economic models. Market glut + controlled market isn't one of them. It makes no difference if someones chest is full of ecto until they either start to sell them or stop buying them. Your stand that they will break the economy and still keep the price exactly the same is nonsensical.